Category: Project Management (Page 1 of 2)

PCI-DSS: Estimating the Cost

Ah money.

This is how most conversations start when we receive calls from PCI. How much will it cost?

I think this is one of the toughest subject for PCI, because it really depends on what is being done by the service provider/consultant for you, and how much you can actually do the implementation of PCI-DSS on your own. And obviously it also depends on your scope, and on top of that, depends on compensating controls if any, or any current controls you have in place. And then it also depends on the validation type – SAQ vs RoC and so on.

So, in the classic riposte to this classic question, it would be “It depends”.

Where we really need to clear the air though is the myth that once you have done PCI-DSS the first time, everything gets easier on the renewals and everything gets cheaper year on year going forward. That is for another article. There is a lot of things going on in PCI-DSS, and if you approach it from a product perspective (like most procurement do), you end up either sabotaging your entire compliance, or getting an auditor willing to sign off on God knows what, and later on realise that you’ve been out of compliance scope all the while.

To start with the pricing, you should understand a bit on the cost of PCI-DSS. And we should start with the QSA, because after all they are the focal point of the PCI program. They are the Qualified Security Assessor. Of course, you can opt to do your PCI (if allowed) without a QSA involvement (Merchant level 3 or 4) and just fill up an SAQ with or without assistance from consultants; but for the most part, a QSA would be involved in the signoff for larger projects, and this is where the cost questions take life.

Lets look firstly at the base cost of becoming a QSA. It’s very helpfully listed for us here: https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/program_training_and_qualification/fees

So here are the maths. Imagine you are a QSA with projects in Malaysia: to start off, you will need to set aside over RM100K just to get you qualified to to audits in the Asian Region. We’re not talking about Europe or Latin America or USA here. Just APAC. That’s qualifying the company. A company, to service any region properly will probably need a bunch of QSAs trained and ready, let’s say around 3 to start off with. Each QSA will need to go for a training costing around RM12 – 13K, so let’s say you have 3 (which is very few), you are setting aside around MYR 50K for that. On top of that, there are obligations such as Insurance Coverage that is specified in the QSA Qualifications Requirement document. So it depends on which insurance you are taking, but it could be in the region of around MYR6K or above premium (spitballing). There is a requalification each year as well.

QSAs then can make their own calculations on how fast/long they need to recover their cost, but let’s say they set aside 200K just to get things set up with 3 or 4 QSAs, then they need to recover that cost. A man day of a QSA/Consultant may range from quite widely in this region but let’s say you decide to price it at “meagre” MYR2K, depending on how senior you have, so overall, you would need to have almost around 1.5 months of engagement of their QSAs just to recover the cost of setting up shop. That’s why its not unreasonable to see higher rates, because of the cost it takes.

You have salaries to consider as well. You also have to consider if something happens to one of your clients, where you happily audited them remotely and believed everything they said, and found out that they have done jack-shoot in their actual environment and you have to handle the fallout of liabilities.

Some procurement compares QSA engagements to firewall engineers. No knock on other technical engineers, but the cost of getting a Checkpoint firewall engineer and the cost to maintain one QSA is a different proposition. I am not saying one is better than another technically (I’ve seen a lot of firewall engineers who could put any auditor into their place, due to their extremely proficient technical skills), I am stating the underlying cost behind the position, which is why PCI-DSS is priced at a rate that’s comparable to say, CMMI, as opposed to say, the ISO9001.

On top of just auditing cost, QSAs take into account the actual support they are giving year on year. Some of them unburden this cost to partners and consultants who have been trained (such as PKF – and there are also other matters such as independence of audit vs implementation advisory which we will discuss later), or some of them take it upon themselves. But you must know the QSAs job is not easy. Aside from auditing and supporting, there is evidence validation and report writing. Then there is the matter of undergoing the Quality Assurance process, which brings more resources/cost to the QSA company. All this while travelling to and from audit sites, reviewing etc – the life of a QSA (ask any QSA) is itinerant and often travel heavy. Burnout may also be a concern, so if the QSAs are involved in the day to day or week to week assistance to their client’s PCI program, this isn’t sustainable.

Understanding all these underlying cost will allow the procurement or whoever is evaluating to understand how to look at projects. If a QSA is pricing extremely low, the question you will need to ask is: What’s being offered? Because all QSAs have more or less the same baseline cost and if a QSA priced themselves at RM800 per man day, and they are a small shop with less than 5 QSAs, what would then be their recovery rate? 200 man days of engagement to recover their initial cost? Most procurement wouldn’t think of things like this and they would just go to their “BAFO” Best and Final Offering – but when you break it down on what is expected, then you would understand that not all PCI offerings are the same. I could simply quote a client 3 man days of QSA work for the final audit and be done. That would be the best and final offering that would win. But what about the healthchecks, the management of the evidences and how they are submitted, the quality checking, the scope optimisation process, the controls checking etc etc?

And in line with our effort estimation, one should also split the pricing into two: Audit and Consultation vs Implementation service and products.

Because if let’s say we find your Requirement 10 is completely empty, and you are thinking to purchase a QRadar SIEM to address it, you could be looking upwards of RM60,000 just to get the product in. Couple that with training for engineers, usage, hiring etc, and you are well over the six figure stage just for Requirement 10! How about testing and application reviews? If you don’t have the personnel on this, then you have to consider setting aside another RM50K etc depending on how many applications/mobile applications/ systems you have in place. So it’s highly essential to have the QSA/consultant assist you in scope reduction. Most may not view it that way, so it’s essential to find an auditor who is experienced and who looks after your interest.

Finally, understand that cost of audit/consulting would be different depending on how you go through PCI-DSS. Level 1 certification requires the effort of validating evidences, doing gap assessments and auditing and writing the RoC. Level 2 SAQ with QSA signoff is slightly easier, as there is no RoC to write while the last option of self signed SAQ without QSA is obviously a lot less costly as you are basically doing a self-signoff. Those are just broad guidelines and not how QSAs may price it, because as I say, due to variables.

You could opt to use the rule of 1/3 when it comes to estimating these costs, although your mileage may vary. For instance, if the QSA throws a RM100K audit fees (comparing it to CMMI fees) for a Level 1 Certification, then a RM60-65K (2/3 of the Level 1) for a SAQ Signoff could be reasonable; and furthermore if you just need them in for consultancy for the non QSA signoff SAQ, it could be 30K (1/3 of the level 1) or so. But note, the SAQ self signoff can be carried out entirely on your own, so the cost could be close to zero as well.

I know its a tough one to place this as pricing varies so often. We aren’t selling a product with specific hardware/software. We are selling a service that will take you through 6 months of work to cover scoping exercise, project meetings, changes, consultancy and advisory, pre-audits and post audits checks, evidence and artefacts sample validations, audit, report writing, training and all the variables in between.

Let us know if you need us to look at your PCI today, drop us a note at pcidss@pkfmalaysia.com and we will attend to you immediately!

The Criticality of Project Management

Project management over the years have gone through somewhat of a bad rap for technology projects, especially. They always seem like a luxury afforded by management, and whenever things go south in a tech project, the first stop for blame is always on the project manager. It’s a tough life. On one hand you need to appease the forces that hold the budget (the business) and on the other, you need to deal with a bunch of geeks who are talking binary stuff and whom you know would rather not have you in the room because you don’t talk tech as much as them.

We used to have a Project Management Office, receiving work from other large projects looking for business analysts, project leaders, program managers etc. It’s not cheap upkeeping these guys, what’s with their PRINCE and PMP certifications and their training and hours. The problem was also when the project ended, then basically we had to go look for other projects to take them on. It’s an expensive affair, unless you have a constant pipeline of internal or external projects to keep them busy. The thing was, we noticed project managers tend to stay as project managers. You couldn’t get them to go into tech audits, or develop software or do compliance work. At least, for the ones we hired.

In the past, Project Managers are fairly agnostic in terms of technical capability. They have a set of domains they are good at (whether they are good at telco projects, compliance projects, migration projects), but overall, the discipline more or less remains constant. Methodologies used by these managers include lean, SCRUM, Agile etc, or simply PMI/PMBOK guidelines, which some of our managers tend to gravitate to. But aside from this basic competency of managers, there is inherently a personality that project managers need to have. Leadership is obvious, decision making capability, the ability to stand strong when being questioned and able to communicate the project properly. The ability to pull people together, from technical to consultants to internal business, and yes, the inherent charisma that one must have to become a successful project manager. He or she needn’t be the most technical in the room, but they must be able to sniff bullshit and weed it out. Time, budget and quality are the basic triangles of forces that need to be met, and good project managers are aware of this.

Due to cost and lack of demand, we shuttered our PMO a few years back, but our guys still practice basic PM work in our compliance project, and in some smaller companies, we actually end up taking the informal role of the project leads. We wouldn’t call ourselves project managers, because not everyone who calls themselves project managers are actually project managers. However, for larger companies, we do defer to the project manager in charge, and in our time we have had some experience with some of the best in the business, and some of the absolute worst. The problem is because being a good PM or absolute garbage is so difficult to assess.

It MAKES A HUGE difference who you put as a project manager. It spells either success or complete doom to your project the moment you assign a good or a garbage project manager.

For a compliance like PCI-DSS, there are some specific traits a manager should have, as PCI is a fairly technical project. And most PCI projects tend to drag on past 4 months or so. Some even a year plus. It does require a fair bit of technical knowledge, persistence and goodwill to successfully manage the project. Here are some of what we observed, and having experience good ones, and the bottom of the barrel type of project managers, we can probably give a fair opinion of what are the points of success (between good manager (GM) and hapless manager (HM)):

a) Technical Capability

This is more of a trait than a skill.

The GM know they don’t need to be experts, but they also know they need to put their backs and time into understanding the whole thing and trying to absorb the technical matters of it. They would attend training sessions and they would ask very good questions. The hapless managers go: OK, everyone knows their spot here. Consultants, I will look to you to answer all PCI related questions. I am here to gather information for all parties, so I want everyone to come for every meeting we are going to have moving forward.

The hapless one basically just comes in, fires off a few questions on project matters, and then sidles down and constantly have a far away look in their eyes when we start talking about the project tasks and updates. Or glued to their phones or laptop, furiously typing out stuff with their brows knotted up. Their strategy is that everyone else will carry their own load so they don’t need to know anything technical because they are too busy with other more important things, like buying food for their cats online. Occasionally, they bark out some orders here and there but you can tell, they know jackshit. After 4 – 5 sessions, they are still clueless and that’s when they start losing grasp of reality, and if the consultants are not available, the whole project is stuck, and then they move into the stage of looking to blame people for their ineptitude. Oh yeah. We have had plenty of these experiences for sure.

b) Communication

This seems a given, and a good manager ensures everyone is on the ball and the scoreboard is known to all. They know how to manage downlines (the people that need to get things done), horizonlines (the peers who are managing other downlines) and uplines (the business or sponsors pressuring the project). This innate ability isn’t bestowed on the hapless one. The hapless manager’s basic modus operandi is to take whatever the team gives, and being questioned by uplines and peers, decide that they don’t know how to explain it and comes back to the team again to ask for more information on how to deal with the questions. There is a complete lack of awareness in these managers that they are unable to overcome. They are unable to argue their points succinctly and always give in when there is pressure. Because of their lack of skill and understanding, they have no clue what positions to take and often waste the entire project timeline by going back and forth hopelessly like grass (or lalang) swaying in the wind.

c) Responsibility

One of the true strengths of character is when things are not going right, the good ones take up the responsibility of the situation and face the issues head on. The hapless ones find a way out, and find a way to blame others. To them, it’s always someone else at fault and never them. This stems from their utter lack of confidence in the project, that the only way they can reverse the situation is by saying, “It’s not my fault.” They usually will turn to consultants, as they are external to the company, and seek to pin the blame on them. It’s tough, but it is what it is. Most companies, given the choice of an external party and an internal person, would side with their own regardless of facts.

d) Time Management

The LLB (Look Like Busy) Trait is a big problem with these hapless managers. Because of their lack of a), b) and c) above, they are running around like headless chickens, being pulled from one meeting to another, unable to resolve any issues properly. So their heads are constantly in their phones or laptops instead of properly leading the project. Firefighting, or looking to assign blame. You can also tell when they are not able to manage meeting times. Many times, we have received calls from project managers requesting either immediate meeting at their office, or to come onsite within the next day and they wail because we tell them we are either overseas or assigned to other audits and we can do a phone. Most don’t understand that (unless we are properly paid and engaged), we are not their outsourced compliance unit so they blame us for non commitment. We are their consultants and there is no service level that requires us to stay in the clients office all the time for their beck and call. Unless, again, if they pay us, but most don’t pay for consultants to sit down and wait for inept project managers to scramble around looking for ad-hoc meetings.

Because they are scrambling and blaming instead of working,these PMs now think they are utterly important because they are so busy, but the fact is because of the ineptitude, they are being forced to seek responsibility, communicate or have technical explanation of the project – all which they are unable to do. So it’s one excruciating, meaningless and useless meeting after another. It’s horrible to exist in that manner for a career, but we’ve seen this many times.

Once you solve a), b) and c), Time Management solves itself.

Bonus points: While this may not be always true, the way project managers approach meetings and projects can actually say a lot. If a PMP or PRINCE PM comes in, there is usually a methodology on the table, tools and actual project management software they utilise for reporting. They are able to standardise our reports to a point where it goes straight to the point and to what they know their uplines need to know. Some hapless PM comes in, not certified in anything, not having knowledge of any tools, software or methodology, but basically armed with an excel sheet they took from another project manager who took from another project manager who used it to make sandwiches. That’s how senseless we see some of these methods and tools sometimes an we just look at everyone across the table and everyone goes like: “What is going on?”

In conclusion, never underestimate the importance of Project Managers, especially in a long drawn project like PCI-DSS. While we have known some excellent ones in our time, we have also worked with yahoos out there that single-handedly managed to trainwreck projects. From this article, it may seem our experience is more on the latter, but the opposite is true – we have the privilege to have worked with some really excellent ones that have also helped us get better, over these years. They are absolutely precious resources in a project, trust me. It’s just that when we do face one or two hapless PMs, it stands out a little bit more because we are so used to working with good ones!

Yes, we have shuttered our PMO as an advisory a few years back, but we also recognise the need for great PMs that might be able to help us out in our projects. If there is any interest, drop us a note at avantedge@pkfmalaysia.com and we will get in touch wth you.

PKF Avant Edge is now HRDF certified training company

hrdf

We are now a HRDF certified training company.

We have several training that is SBL claimable that includes training materials and certificate of attendance:

1) PCI-DSS Foundation Training (PCIP Led, QSA developed materials), certificate of training from PKF and joint QSA partner Control Case International

2) PCI-DSS Implementor Training (PCIP Led, QSA developed materials), certificate of training from PKF and joint QSA partner Control Case International

3) GST Malaysia Training (Led by RMCD Certified Trainer)

3) Introduction to Technology Audit (Led by Certified Auditor and Certified Information Security Professional – CISA,CISSP)

5) Project Management Level 1: Foundations (Led by Project Management Professional Certified)

6) Project Management Level 2: Advance (Led by Project Management Professional Certified)

7) Personal Data Protection Act Training (Led by Certified Auditor and Certified Information Security Professional)

Stay tuned for more details. Our training site has been updated at http://www.pkfavantedge.com/training-programs/

If you need more information, please send your enquiries to training@pkfmalaysia.com.

MPSB is PCI-DSS Certified!

 

What started out as a simple enquiry in 2012 turned into a full fledged PCI-DSS Level 1 project for Manage Pay Services Berhad (MPSB), one of our success stories in PCI-DSS compliance. PKF has been the sole representative of Control Case, an internationally recognised Qualified Security Assessor (QSA) from US with a center of excellence in India, in Malaysia since 2011. MPSB was one of our first client together, and while the follow ups and clarifications took some time, we once again demonstrated the value of client relationship and customer closeness that sets our service apart. With PKF Control Case, we are just a call, just a drive away. With additional value added services like update talks, training, technical services and consultancy, we definitely gave MPSB more than they bargained for. It was precisely this working relationship between MPSB, our local team of PCI consultants and the QSAs from India that made this project a resounding success. It was indeed with great pride that in 2014, less than a year from our gap assessment, that we can say: it was a great journey, and now it continues on through maintenance and yearly review.

PCI-DSS can be an extremely arduous project, as it touches major parts of the business and is oftentimes more than 5 – 6 months. Due to this, we have specialised Project Management Professionals (PMP) doing PCI based projects for banks and large enterprises. For more details, drop us an email at avantedge@pkfmalaysia.com. We will contact you immediately and set you up on your compliance journey.

PKF Avant Edge in the ASEAN Financial Institution Conference Hanoi

I was invited to attend the 2013 ASEAN Financial Institution Conference in Hanoi as one of the speakers. My presentation (done in a video scribing mode) was on “Navigating the PCI-DSS Journey”. It was a topic close to heart of course, with many of our clients either undergoing PCI-DSS or starting the PCI DSS journey.

Overall, it was a great experience. I went with my Project Management Director, CB Chan, and met up with our PKF colleagues in Vietnam, who also joined us in the conference. We managed to not just meet with other technology partners and conference speakers, but also representatives from other banks in Vietnam.

As always, networking is vital for the survival of our business. The experience itself was an added bonus as Hanoi was a bustling city packed with motorbikes and people.

Possibly not the most photogenic people (we are technologists and accountants after all, not models) but we’re still proud of our little space for consultation and advisory.

Aside from those listed, where PKF is proudly the only consultation and advisory firm, Cybersecurity and MDEC were also represented from the Malaysian contingent.

Other mugshots we had:

 

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